think tank forum

like when the cafes close at 10pm and i go home to a dark, empty apartment

sometimes the solitude is nice
the rest of the times it's an odd, nagging feeling

I see solitude is a temporary get away and a time to think. I hate being alone for extended periods of time. After being in the dorms last year and living in a house with 6 other people this year I think I will go crazy living with one other person or a few next year. Sure sometimes I have to put up with shit that is a pain, but it's worth it. This world helps shape you, go live in it!

I live with one person, and two people come over regularly. I can't deal with that--far too many people. I prefer being by myself, really.

solitude rules, i love every minute of it. that not to say i hate being around people, i love that to but i just thoroughly enjoy every minute of alone time i get.

I love myself. I'm pretty much the greatest person on the face of this planet. Spending quality time with myself is a gift I truly cherish.

for me loneliness is an emotion, which means it isn't rational. so i can't make an argument for or against its existence in the face of solitude. it simply depends

How many brothers and sisters do you have? I do admit that sometimes I hate crowds and people. However, there are lots of endless nights when I just want kids(college kids) around me. I hate being alone for too long and I believe growing up with at least 8 people in the house has made me accustomed to having people around.

A favorite I can recall is driving home in a silent snowfall timeless. Packed snow absorbing the bulk of any other noise. Me and the engine without the heater in my warm jacket with cold face, hands.

I enjoy the feeling that I may not be entirely describing there.

Desert stargazing after they've been gone so long to remind me. Relaxed with a desert night's cool. Listening to some slow lumbering tunes that remind me of my proximity, like a family radio in the 50's, and without the treble-flat voice.

i just have one sister.

don't get me wrong, i'm all about being by myself. but after extended amounts of time without human contact, it starts to wear on me. then i get all apathetic and philosophic.

I hear it, lucas. being alone is nice, but I gotta get out of the house and hang out with people every so often.

for me the potency of loneliness is all powerful, compelling, and dominating. it strips me of my self esteem and leaves me begging for love. at times it is everything. i hate it

oh god let me weep for the loss of my soul. what is the point of individuality if all we have is ourselves?

loneliness is good and bad.. i guess its the situation.

I have been feeling lonely because of my relationship coming to a close, and my current life situation. it definitely can be defeating coming home to a shithole apartment and feeling lonely.. especially in a new town, with no friends.

i love being lonely outdoors, though.. but i feel similar when i share quiet moments with another person outdoors. especially like when dp described the snow.

my favorite way to not be lonely is to go out and do something as many weeknights as possible. a lot of people are around on weeknights because they don't really make definite plans and stuff so it's easier to hang out. also, doing stuff during the day on weekends.

then when there is boring stuff like stupid parties and shows happening on the weekend nights, I don't want to leave my house anyway because I've been so busy all week! this is pretty much what I did this week and it was great.

you live alone, andyp? sometimes I think I'd like to live alone, but I also kind of like having two roommates who are my best friends who I can talk to and hang out with pretty much whenever. why's the apartment a shithole?

yeah.. it is my first time living completely alone. i thought i'd love it.. and i'm sure I would if I had some friends.. I just moved to Oregon in May so i don't really know any one yet.. just my co-workers. The apartment is in a sketchy little neighborhood. the place itself is very old, and it has the worlds smallest bathroom in it. The shower is about 2x2 1/2 ft and its hot as fuck in there right now.. and i can't figure out how to turn the damn gas heater off. it is always putting out some heat. it has been in the 100s all week :( my neighbors are drunk ass drug dealers, and i've had multiple people almost kick my door down because they thought the previous tennant lived there still.

so.. all that paired with feeling the blues from breaking up with my girlfriend.. just sucks a lot :)

imma post on this one tonight, i am finishing up my first time living alone this week

the "thread id" is 666

loneliness is a bitch

thankfully i find loneliness to be one of the easiest emotional sensations to meditate away

individuals disappoint me on a more or less continuous basis. people as a group do not disappoint me so much, since i don't have many if any expectations of goodness from groups of individuals.

would it help to be more selective of the people I get close to? I don't think so. maybe if I was more reserved.

any ideas? maybe if i can learn to abandon any and all expectations of the people i think 'i know'.

i know, perhaps I should engross myself in the world of fiction entirely. at least there people behave.

BTY word greene, loneliness is depression.

I think being more selective would help. I have about three friends (other than family members) who I am really close to and know very well. a couple of them I have known for a long time (ten years or so) and the other three or four years.

being perceptive helps too, like if you can tell from the get-go that someone is a shitty person or someone you don't really want to get close to.

Being too selective limits opportunity. Minimizing expectation works best for me. This isn't to say I don't have hopes for those I care about, it just means I try to avoid making such solid "make-or-break" judgments of their character.

I like to focus more on appreciating the process. It's not about "knowing" people so much as learning from them/about them with each new experience.

I've noticed that when I'm lonely, I start hitting on women I normally would not be interested in. Note this is different from being desperate. I mean I start hitting on chicks who I know have boyfriends or children and I start not giving a fuck about a lot of things. Maybe it's just this week who knows ....

like now :(

more times than not, but i suppose you just get used to it.

I was lonely last night too. Erika was asleep in the living room and she was out for about 6 hours. I was just in my room watching The Office.

or just sad

like when the wind blows in a town wind doesn't often blow, and my light is the only one on.

This robert frost thread shit really needs to stop. By the time I finished reading the post above I had already reached for a knife and was about to put an end to my misery.

Can't we be more optimistic about being alone?

When I am alone, I know that everyone is at peace. Knowledge is shared, viewpoints are held in high regard. Respect is the order of the day. I sleep well knowing that I am safe from harm. One might call this solitary universe a utopia. In my lone sphere of influence all action taken is met with universal support and admiration. Every member of our simple society is treated as an equal and given full freedom to pursue happiness. No crime, no drugs, no pollution... a perfect world. My world.

All hail solitaria.

That's nice. I live in the real world where people kill each other and I feel feelings.

This "real" world you speak of sounds pretty weak sauce. Have you considered moving to a nicer area?

my mind is a pretty dreary place

normally i'd be with you, nny, but my shit's wrecked

why do you guys want to live in dream land? enjoying being alone can certainly be a positive thing, but preferring dream-land to reality...not so much

hm? who said they want to live in their dreams?

The "real" world is a matter of perspective.

At even the most basic level of physics perspective bends and shapes our perception universe.

To assume that anyone is living in some objective reality that we like to refer to as "real" is an absurdity. And that's something that transcends everything we do.

None of us experience the same taste when biting into an apple. None of us see the same red in the hue of a setting sun. And none of us find the same enjoyment in social interaction as any other.

To be sure we are all fairly similar as we are the same species, and at least in this forum largely of the same background culture.

But, life experiences jade us and color our judgment as well as our outlook on all things. Sort of a glass is half full, glass is half empty thing, but spanning the sum total of our human experience.

Where one might fine solitude unbearable, another might find solace in it.

Where one may hate the buzz of a city, another may love it.

It's a matter of perspective at the end of the day. And as it turns out, our perspectives change fairly often and quite erratically.

We're pretty fucking nuts.

So what I will say is this. In a sense, every world we live in is in some way vastly altered by our own constrained perspective doubly so when comparing two people's perspectives. Who is to argue that a dream land is any more off the mark than your perspective?

Common consensus? Rule of the mob? One could argue the only free thinkers left are the insane. =P

usually the concept of an objective reality doesn't involve every person sharing opinions of apples.

what's your point?

> The "real" world is a matter of perspective.

No it isn't...the real word is what keeps existing whether or not I or any of you continue to be in it.

Unless of course you believe that once you stop being in it (perceiving it), there ceases to be a real world.

The point is pretty straightforward. If you think it's possible for people to share an "objective" reality, I'll have to say that until technology can bring about "the singularity", odds are that's about as far from true as could be possible.

We do not share the experience in our lives. We do not know the same universe. Sure we are probably sharing space in the same space time dimension... and probably on earth... but the sections of the grand canvas that we each view are different, and as a result our preconceived notions of normalcy are as well. These differences can be fairly vast. As a result, what I see as earth, now, unfashionable arm of the milkyway.... is not what you see, by any stretch of the imagination.

In a way, bridging that gap in experience can at times be nigh impossible. We all live in something of a self induced delusion, in so much as we are all seeing such different glimpses of such a large amount of data and using our really awesome brains to define our realities and interact with them safely. We fill in blanks, we see different things, we make different assumptions and generalizations. And at the end of it... we end up very confused with each others perspectives.

So, in response to Etrangere asking "why do you guys want to live in dream land?" I have to ask, is there really a difference between a dream and a perceived reality? Much as we have difficulty spotting the errors in our own perceptions of objectivity, we often times fail to consciously recognize when we are in dreams. There is something of a parallel between the two.

Life, is very much like a dream. Dream, very much like life.

=D Just pondering the relationship is all. I saw parallels there that run pretty deep. I could say that anyone who believes in X deity or spiritualism is in fact living in a dream. But would they recognize that they are? Am I the one in a dream? It's just a matter of perspective at the end of the day. Whether one of us is right or wrong is difficult if not impossible to prove, and even if it was possible to prove the fantastic impossible, would we then give up our dreams? I don't think so. We like them a lot, and often times we latch so tightly on to the dreams we have, that eventually we make them real.

Man dreamt of traveling the stars and men upon the surface of the moon long before we set foot there. Some day, man may posses the capacity to create a divine ruler. Who knows. We're pretty fucking nuts. I say, let people dream. It's often fairly amusing even if it is a bit dangerous.

> So, in response to Etrangere asking "why do you guys want to live in dream land?" I have to ask, is there really a difference between a dream and a perceived reality?

I'm not talking about our "perceived" realities. I'm talking about actual reality. The part that exists/continues independently of us.

Of course we each perceive life uniquely. I just found it interesting that you like to be in your own "perfect" world, where there is "no crime, no drugs, [and] no pollution."

i don't see what you get out of thinking about subjectivity versus objectivity.

in the single instance where nny was talking about how he likes the manifestation of his solitary dreams in reality, it might be useful to differentiate people who do not take the time to dream about the world, and those who don't, but this seems like a terrible path. it sounds like you think that there is no optimism in imagination. it gives me the impression about your world view that only the persistent "objective reality" has value. this makes me think that you can't value other peoples perspective because you can't understand them, or because they aren't what is objective.

he called it a solitary universe utopia. what's wrong with being optimistic about that? antisocial behavior is looked down upon by society, and by reacting with words like 'why do you want to live in dream land' feels like a reaction of someone who feels the need to insist on social conformity instead of valuing alone time when it is due. some people are so afraid to be alone that they don't allow it to happen ever (they will leave a TV on to hear peoples voices so they don't feel alone, or they surround themselves with people even if they don't like them). while i agree that the proposition of being alone for a long time is a crushing one, it's more useful and purposeful to be optimistic in the beauty of the imagination unfolds in those times.

the subconscious, dreams, the mind all work to grapple with the sense experience of the world. so to an extent i agree with what nny said about dreams being much like life, or that dreams and realities are shared to an extent. i was going to post earlier that dreams are reality, or that the imagination manifests the world's image tentatively constrained by the current sense perception of that world.

don't you think that for coping purposes escapism is valuable? in an extreme (perhaps metaphorical) example would you as a prostitute in captivity valuing a perceived utopian reality in solitude be completely disagreeable because this value doesn't cause you to want to live in "reality"? this doesn't mean that you don't know about reality, or that you prefer it always in renunciation (surprisingly).

edit:kind of messed up the subject in the last paragraph.

wow i hope there aren't dual metaphors going on here. no double entendre etrangere.

to be clear the metaphor is that nny and i could be considered the prostitutes in captivity and that you're understanding our perspective by sitting in our shoes.

Wish I was a prostitute in captivity... errrr....

Objective reality is something akin to an "ideal state". It's something we strive for, but probably is not actually achievable.

Some argue there's no point in even attempting to be objective. You should simply be open and honest as possible about your bias.

The question of the "objective" reality becomes doubly complex when you take into account the fact that our existence in viewing it, alters it. So reality is as much a function of us, as we are of it. In that regard, reality is an ever changing beast subject to the whims and fancies of at least 7 billion lunatics.

Objective... I don't see it. Mind you, we all can't deny fire hurts, rocks from the skies are bad, and people who eat anchovies are fucking strange. =P Maybe there are some points of reference that keep us all pinned down enough to continue to live with each other.

the only difference between watching inception and reading this thread? the movie doesn't make me want to put a bullet in my brain

Really? I might have to see it then.

you should check out eXistenZ too, if you haven't seen it

bitchin. btw lady with the dragon tattoo... great film.

> don't you think that for coping purposes escapism is valuable?

Of course. I have been completely misunderstood/misconstrued.

i think you pulled an lr, with a negating one liner that begs for an extensive response.

and nny i think you could be considered a prostitute in captivity because of the forced subjection to the "objective reality".

"pulled a lr"

haha

Reality is pretty dirty. And it doesn't know the meaning of no...

My god, I am being raped by the universe....

thanks for the grammar police carpetsmoker, but i do like 'an el-ar' even though it really isn't correct. neither are sentences with no caps, but whatever. :D

and nny you should be concerned haha

bsdlite i might check that out. i'm sorry you don't find this thread agreeable mr. opinion but no explanation. :)

> thanks for the grammar police carpetsmoker, but i do like 'an el-ar' even though it really isn't
> correct. neither are sentences with no caps, but whatever. :D

I just thought it was a funny quote. I wasn't pointing out the grammar mistake (I copied the mistake in r1 actually, saw it only after I posted, and corrected it. I can't help myself on that.)

First they came for the bad punctuation. I said nothing.
Then they came for the misspellings. I said nothing.
Even when they came for the logical fallacies. I said nothing.
When they came for me, there were no trolls left to say anything.

It's so bad tonight :(

i'm sorry.

:(

talk to yourself.

great advice.

Agreed.

I've been feeling real lonely the past couple of months, so I've been diving into doing anything else, just to get my mind off of it. Probably not the best solution, but it's producing usable things in the process.

How is that not a good solution? I wish I was better at doing that, but everything is hard.

yeah seriously. that sounds like a great solution.

It produced a desk, a queen-sized bedframe with drawers, a stripped and refinished entryway, a garden, a hammock, and several scripts.

Maybe y'all are right. I just feel, sometimes, that I'm using it as an escape rather than as a means of dealing with the loneliness.

It is your means, though! And it's great because it means you are not wallowing in self-pity!

I must learn this tactic.

...Can you learn motivation?

Motivation isn't a learned behavior, I think. You become motivated doing something you like ... maybe you just need to find something that motivates you more?

if it keeps you from being lonely and it's not fucking up your life, why not?

Yeah, it was mostly a rhetorical question. Good advice all the same, though

I have more friends in Germany than I have in San Francisco. How fucked is that?

Maybe you could move to Germany? I feel like you would fit right in!

Hey oh!!

I was serious

Don't you like Germans? Or do you just like being friends with them from far away? :o

Oh I thought you were making a nazi joke. I think I've somehow godwin'ed this conversation already.

You Godwined yourself, nny. It's a record.

:\ geez man give me some credit

I meant you'd fit in because you have intense opinions about everything and a lot of Germans seem to be similarly intense. But wtf would I know, I've never been there.

Also thanks for making me google what the crap "godwining" was

I make you do that a lot, it seems.

I invented the Inverse godwin actually. It's when you begin an argument with a comparison to hitler, and win by default.

you can't win by default if we're comparing him w/Charlie Chaplin! \o/

OH SNAPE. I'll have to grant that one.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1945794/

Look, man, I'm cashing in. I'm done. I'm 40-shit years old and I got nothing, I got nobody. And I don't want anything. I don't want anybody. And that's the worst part, when the want goes. That's bad. I mean, suffering is one thing. Or not having is one thing. But when you just don't care anymore...

Hell, I've gone soft in the last 3 pussies I've been in. You get to a point where you go, "Maybe it's time to put a period at the end of whatever this was."

Watching Doug Stanhope give that little speech ... fuck, man.

well that was shitty reading

seems about right

Maybe it's just because I've dealt with suicides before and many, many more attempted suicides, but that just kinda hit home. It was like listening to my ex talk before she tried opening up her arm. That sort of honesty that gets lost in the mess of most media. That's why I appreciated it so much. *shrug*

yeah that was great to watch, in a way. I love that show so much.

http://i.imgur.com/NMnRe.gif

I've never dealt with suicide. Attempted or otherwise. You hang out with weird people.:)

I had a friend when I was in HS, her sister tried to commit suicide. Was terrible what that did to her.

People who would do that to their family really should be aware of the damage that they do.

That being said, euthanasia has to be one of the worst things on this planet in so far as it is sometimes the best of so many horrible options. =/

We're so far from being where we want to be a species.

> I've never dealt with suicide. Attempted or otherwise. You hang out with weird people.:)

Well ain't you just King Shit of Fuck Mountain?

> People who would do that to their family really should be aware of the damage that they do.

They're well aware.

> They're well aware.

maybe.

pretty sure they're a little beyond caring about the emotional turmoil of their family. I've had suicidal thoughts before; not like, "what would it be like to kill myself?" or "how would I do it?" but actually wrestling internally with the idea of suicide being a good option. I don't think it's terribly weird.

and I just mean that the reasons you entertain if you consider suicide as an option are so much grander than anyone's emotions, even your own.

The benefit of not believing in a god or after life is that any living hell is better than the alternative of oblivion.

> pretty sure they're a little beyond caring about the emotional turmoil of their family.

yes. it can be so consuming and painful that one doesn't think of others.

The benefit of not believing in a god or after life is that any living hell is better than the alternative of oblivion.

hahaha, seriously.

hahahahahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydZwkumSzGg&NR=1

> The benefit of not believing in a god or after life is that any living hell is better than the alternative of oblivion.

I don't know ... Before I was born I spent several billions years being dead. Didn't suffer the slightest inconvenience from it.

You didn't know what you were missing those first 4000 years.

I saw a close friend C. at least weekly for a drink and chat. I enjoyed her friendship. All was well.

On occasion, she would hang out with our other mutual friends, and no one would invite me. The first few times I heard about these gatherings without being invited, I'd say to C., "Sounds fun--you should invite me next time!" I said this as carefully as possible (in both tone and word choice), to avoid making her feel guilty or judged.

These situations continued to present themselves. After the first few times of expressing interest in joining them the next time, I kept quiet. I don't want to be a broken record, nor do I want to beg to hang out with anyone. After some time, I did say something again. She explained that her role in the group is passive. She just goes with the flow; they invite her to join them, and that's it.

If I saw the group of friends on campus and clung around them for a bit, I'd usually get invited along. Sometimes I felt like I had to hint that I would like to join them. Maybe they thought an invitation was always implied, but I was strictly raised to never invite oneself. Maybe they're just awkward or asocial people, and maybe so am I.

Throughout this, C. and I maintained our frequent meetings. I generally asked her to grab a drink at least weekly. Most times I'd ask if she wants to invite her roommate, who often joined us. Sometimes we'd also get food, lunch or dinner.

I started to realize that C. never called me up to hang out. I felt like I was virtually always the initiator. So I tried to talk to her about it. I tried to tell her that I value our friendship greatly, but I worry that she doesn't feel as strongly, because she doesn't initiate. I don't remember her response; maybe I never actually had this discussion with her.

I slowly began to relent. I thought that if I didn't talk to her for a little while, maybe she'd miss me, and she'd initiate contact. I thought that maybe we were seeing each other a bit too often than would be natural for her. So I thought that if I backed off, she'd pick up the slack at some point, and we'd find an equilibrium.

Instead, when I backed off, the carpet slid out from under me. The last time I contacted her was the last contact I had with her. She never took initiative to contact me again. So I have never hung out with her since.

I've been romantically involved with N. since July 2015. As a result, I had less time and energy to keep in contact with the group; I suggested plans with decreasing frequency.

No one seemed to notice or care. Now May 2017, they still continue to hang out with each other, but they don't invite me. I felt close and comfortable with many of these people.

I'm thinking that I should try to organize a group function, in hopes of renewing the friendships. It feels awkward because they hang out together so often, and I'll essentially be suggesting the same group convene, only with me. I'm also thinking of asking C. to grab a drink. Even if it's one-sided initiation, she may very well still value our friendship.

I did a quick web search for advice, a reality check, and to see others' approaches. And so I found a forum called A Lonely Life, which is a pretty big bummer. :<

thoughts?

I have no advice to give you ... 7 months since moving and haven't made a single serious friend yet.
It would be the blind leading the blind...

Hey lucas,

***KEEP IN MIND I AM SINGLE AND DITCHED ALL OF MY FRIENDS SO TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT***

Likely you are perceived as being available, around, or otherwise the furniture in those people's mind.

Also, keep in mind most people are really boring and are almost exclusively looking to be titillated.

You are well versed in economics, you understand scarcity.

I am not in any way suggesting you do anything out of malice.

NO MALICE NO WRONG ACTION ONLY LOVE

You just need to get stoked on you again, go out meet people, do things, go on trips, take up a passion project. I mean I think you are 30ish like myself and if you are anything like me, there's this insane pressure/feeling/vibe that shit has to happen right now and you've already done so much, I cant believe I still gotta talk to people, why is it always the first day of school, ugh! I just want cookies and apple juice.

YOU GOT THIS! go be rad.

thanks.

more recent complications. more on it later.